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5000 nurses from India and the Phillipines. Patient risk?

Discussion in 'Society, Culture and Politics' started by DarkMist, Nov 28, 2017.

  1. DarkMist

    DarkMist Guest

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/28/nhs-hire-5000-nurses-india-phillipines/

    The NHS is to hire 5,500 nurses from India and the Philippines in a desperate bid to plug staff shortages, health officials have said.

    The mass recruitment exercise follows an increase in the number of UK graduates abandoning the profession, and a sharp drop in the number of nurses coming to work in Britain from the EU.

    Joyce Robins, from Patient Concern, said: “We do need more staff but I have grave doubts about whether this is the way to go about it.

    “These kind of exercises are a desperate short-term measure, which can result in language difficulties, and nurses having to get familiar with new systems, when we should be making longer-term plans, and training up enough nurses in this country,” she said.

    .
    Do you think language barriers and lack of experience in NHS hospitals will put patients at risk?
     
  2. Sonic Budgie

    Sonic Budgie Active Member

    Yes, maybe, however I would think that far more lives would be put at risk without 5500 extra staff. We absolutely should be making long term plans, they don't help with the immediate issue though.
     
  3. OP
    OP
    DarkMist

    DarkMist Guest

    So do we just need to offer more pay to qualified UK nurses? Would fewer of those be better?
     
  4. Sonic Budgie

    Sonic Budgie Active Member

    Would more money be the solution, is the reason that we have a shortfall just pay? Even if we paid more I assume we still wouldn't have enough nurses as we don't have enough trained yet, or are you thinking we could pay the existing ones double but make them work twice as many hours?
    We used to have people with real world knowledge and experience to help and answer these types of questions.
     
    Julia9054 likes this.
  5. Nazz

    Nazz Member

    There needs to be more long term planning to train and develop our own staff, doctors as well as nurses. We can't keep plundering other countries talent.
     
  6. Bromptonaut

    Bromptonaut Rohan Man

    No. Next?
     
  7. TheBand

    TheBand Member

    Yes of course they will.

    Lives are put at risk when nurses and Drs move between hospitals because of differing procedures and protocols. Of course there will be large elements of risk when they come from abroad, wherever the abroad may be. Healthcare is not healthcare. Some hospitals don't allow movement between wards because of differing treatment protocols in different wards.
     
  8. Roger_the_Lodger

    Roger_the_Lodger Regular Member

    It appears to be a very shortsighted strategy, finding out the real reason the existing nurses are leaving would be a good start, why they can leave on a Friday having already signed up with an agency & come back onto the same ward on Monday on higher pay. Where is the logic? as the agency will not be doing it for nothing, so that nurse MUST be costing the NHS far more.
     
  9. tyreon

    tyreon Member

    Visited my dear old mum just prior to her going to her deathbed. Went to a nursing assessment home run almost exclusively by foreign staff. Place was crammed in like sardines. Mum had a side room. No windows,looking like a cleaning room. I think she was grateful...and which was pathetically sad. She was also of the sort that wouldn't complain,and by this time,knew she couldn't complain. She was being challenged to walk across the living room floor to toilet herself...for her benefit and well being...or so says the guff. Right next to her I heard Mr X's toileting complaints and surgical procedures being discussed by the doctor...alongside everyone else to hear!!!
    Factory farming. Criminal.
    Maybe the staff didn't understand or had cultural differences to the incumbents,but it appeared a foreign environment. Still,you can't complain...and mustn't do...tho my wife and I did...but got nowhere.
    Alas,to complain only 'encourages 'em'. I'm talking about the chief execs,religious authorites,our exalted elders. Any complaint promotes more discussion and pontification...and which must all be paid with much dosh and worthy praise. Meanwhile the torture will go on.
    Having seen it,experienced it and,in the past, talked to me ol Ma about it...I'm sorta thinking this sorta humiliation and torture is worse than that offered by another way of thinking(of which I dare not mention or jest)

    It wouldn't be nice, but a handsome blonde haired young officer comes to my deathbed. 30 minutes on the truck,then oblivion. Just my opinion. I'd rather have it this way than the 'kind we-are-always-thinking-of-your-best-interests' offered by our great and the good(AoC: Let us say prayers!). O course,many of our superiors they do get better treatment in their final days. Fact. Still,that's best left doggo

    The silent culling of the old,frail and mute. You wont read about it. They have no voice. And if you're in the job you cannot speak up.

    And if yer in the job...leave it!
     
  10. Sonic Budgie

    Sonic Budgie Active Member

    The way that elderly people are treated in this country is often a disgrace, but you seem to be suggesting that in the case of your mother (very sorry to hear that BTW) it was because the care staff were foreign, you're not really saying that are you?
     
  11. Welsh dragon

    Welsh dragon Senior Member Staff Member

    It doesn't matter where the staff come from as long as they are looked after with compassion, respect and with the dignity they are entitled to and deserve.
     
    pubrunner likes this.
  12. tyreon

    tyreon Member

    Hi Sonic. I best leave you to tell me if I am saying its because staff are foreign.

    Would I be a racist a or a xenophobe if I did describe the staff as all foreign? Have I already trespassed? How best to have described the staff? I guess I could have said all female. Mmmm...I guess that could have been seen ...sexist? Why the 'foreign' reference. I guess I should have used ignorant,or ill educated,or badly educated...staff.

    I wonder whether my mother's care may ever have been compromised by cultural differences? Please and thank you are not obligatory in all races/languages or cultures. Some professional cultures can also conflict with native general norms.

    When in care I had telephoned the staff there to be redressed! I found one particular staff members attitude there disrespectful and rude...and wrong.

    I usually get my cultural imperialism corrected from Hampstead :smile:
     
  13. Sonic Budgie

    Sonic Budgie Active Member

    No @tyreon, if you feel that your mothers care was substandard and that the nationality of the care staff was a contributory factor have the honesty to say it, I'm not going to play some stupid guessing game with you.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
  14. tyreon

    tyreon Member

    Alas,because of the complexity of the issue and the contentiousness that could arise, my reply should be at length. This should not be the reply.

    Think of clapped out building as pictured in Cxxp Towns of Britain(the book). Think of a hodge-podge of differing sized rooms,some large,some broom cupboard size, a window here,a window there: some windows looking onto brick walls and the like. Getting the picture? Now cram in lottsa people...lottsa people+++. Into a small space. Sit em all together. Now get visiting doctors and such round to interview the cattle(sorry,people)asking all about their personal details: money,private issues,their housing,relationships...the lot. All so everything can be heard by your neighbour. Now have staff whose background and training and knowledge and linguistic skills are wanting. Or 'foreign'. As a patient,as a coffin dodger,as a frail and elderly person(spoon fed to doff caps to authority)wottaya thinking,wottaya-feelin? Yer on your last legs and you are being ordered(directed?)now to do this,do that...YOU CAN DO THAT! Mmmm. Of course this is all in your best interests and if you can't do it,you may be personally obstructive! Difficult even!! Oh dear. Feeling terrid?

    Personally failing and in pain and so low you also know...things can get worse! Your treatment is at the mercy of the staff. And the factory vet(sorry,doctor)

    Wouldn't it be nice if you could understand some of the staff. Maybe if some of the staff reflected some of your background you'd feel at 'home'. Tho native staff can be as indifferent and callous as those deemed 'foreign', you also know that if you ever raised a complaint against such staff as 'foreign' as shorthand for indifferent/hurried care, you would immediately be held as a racist bigot. Your care could then be compromised and further prolonged pain and suffering could then be inflicted upon you... even on your family.

    I hope I have begun to paint the picture.

    I made complaint. I didn't hear back. I wouldn't raise any further complaints as I am of the belief that it just gives more jobs to the committee men and women who appear to just wring their hands then pontificate...then don't forget to claim their large salaries and expenses before walking out the door. (With wry humour, I'm always impressed by the concerned faces :sad: of those 'educated elite' who can and do make money out of misery)
     
  15. Sonic Budgie

    Sonic Budgie Active Member

    Are you talking about nurses or care workers?