Brexit - the betrayal

Discussion in 'Society, Culture and Politics' started by Baron Vlad Harkonenn, Dec 14, 2017.

  1. Baron Vlad Harkonenn

    Baron Vlad Harkonenn Regular Member

    Such a beautiful thing ruined.

    The UK is no longer a democracy.

    The lunatics have taken over the asylum.
     
  2. pubrunner

    pubrunner Regular Member

    It'll be interesting to see if those Conservative MPs who voted against the government, stand as candidates in the next election.

    I see that Labour MPs who support Brexit (such as Denis Skinner) also voted against the government, on the basis that they wanted to see the government suffer an embarrassing defeat . . . . . . . which they have. I'm amazed that May has managed to cling on to power, though I can't see any half-decent replacement.
     
  3. Big Andy

    Big Andy Senior Member Staff Member

    Not sure I agree, while I am still very much on the fence over Brexit in terms of the long term effects I am rasonably sure it will still happen. It seems to me that the vote last night was our normal parliamentary democracy in action although it seemed a fairly minor amendment on the basis a vote had already been promised and perhaps opposing the amendment was the governments mistake on this one.
     
  4. Big Andy

    Big Andy Senior Member Staff Member

    It seems to be the Labour modus operandi at the moment, they seem more bothered about trying to wreck the government than getting the best possible deal for Brexit. The Tories had just started edging ahead in the polls again too.
     
    classic33 and Welsh dragon like this.
  5. Joey Shabadoo

    Joey Shabadoo Regular Member

    It's not a betrayal for MPs to do their jobs, one of which is holding the government to account. "Government" isn't the Tory party, it's the cabinet and all the associated jobs around it. When an MP is part of the government, they're not allowed to vote against anything the government proposes - that's why there was a rise in the number of assistants and secretaries to cabinet positions under Blair - he was effectively putting his MPs in golden handcuffs. That's not good for democracy and I would be extremely dubious of any MP who'd been in the Commons any length of time and hadn't voted against his/her party.

    It's the duty of all MPs of whatever stripe to scrutinise Government proposals. The tribalism of the opposition party shouting "Black" to the government of the day's "White" is pathetic and much as I think Corbyn is an arsepiece, he at least demonstrated an ability to consider government legislation upon it's merits when he was a backbench nobody.

    As for the likes of the SNP - I think I'm right in saying that they have voted as a bloc without exception or any hint of an independent braincell between them since the current lot got in. Sheep, the lot of them.

    Personally, I'd abolish parties - the ultimate betrayal of representative democracy. 650 Independent MPs might not get a lot done (that's a good thing) but everything they did get done would be achieved by winning the argument, not the lobby fodder competition.
     
    pubrunner likes this.
  6. pubrunner

    pubrunner Regular Member

    If this ^^ is correct, I'd be very surprised indeed.

    This is a time when it might be expected that Labour would be trampling all over the Conservatives, but Corbyn is too weak to achieve even this. May isn't up to much and she comes across as being weak & ineffectual; meanwhile, Vince Cable is all, but invisible.
     
  7. Joey Shabadoo

    Joey Shabadoo Regular Member

  8. Big Andy

    Big Andy Senior Member Staff Member

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/51199...st-time-since-june-after-brexit-breakthrough/
    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-may-enjoys-boost-opinion-polls/
    http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/polls.html
    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/12/12/voting-intention-conservatives-42-labour-41-10-11-/

    Admittedly it's very very close.
     
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