1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Cover ups and misscarriages of justice

Discussion in 'Law, Order and Defence' started by Welsh dragon, Dec 18, 2017.

  1. Welsh dragon

    Welsh dragon Senior Member Staff Member

    Following on from the "capital punishment" thread and cases where innocent people have been convicted and sentenced to death, recently there has been a case of alleged rape where the police attempted to deny the defence from seeing phone records that would have proved that the accused was innocent.

    Liam Allen had his life turned upside down as a result. There is also the enormous cost to the taxpayer that an investigation, and prosection lawyers, not to mention the amount of time this would have taken up in the court system. It seems that the police involved could be guilty of gross misconduct if nothing else.

    There have beem other famous or infamous cases where innocent people have been convicted. It seems that the police need to be policed more vigorously themselves to ensure that this kind of miscarriage of justice is prevented. But how is this going to happen? The IPPC is already well estsblished, but they only step in after a miscarriage of justice takes place.

    I have no idea how or if this kind of thing can ever be prevented, and if police officers are found to have kept evidence secret, or prevented defense attorneys from seeing all evidence, then what should happen to those officers found guilty? And what in reality does happen to them if anything?
     
  2. Big Andy

    Big Andy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    If a police officer is proven to deliberately have held back evidence or influenced an investigation corruptly as a minimum they should be sacked and lose pension rights, beyond that it should depend on the seriousness of the case being influenced. If its an attempt to frame someone perhaps the officer should serve whatever sentence the framed person would have been given.

    I am certain that the vast majority of Police officers are beyond reproach but with any walk of lofe there will always be some wrong uns.
     
    Welsh dragon likes this.
  3. Bromptonaut

    Bromptonaut Rohan Man

    The Liam Allen case appears to have been cock up, though that's no consolation for Mr Allen.

    I suspect @Pale Rider could tell us the processes in place nowadays to ensure full disclosure but there have certainly been cases in past where evidence was deliberately withheld.
     
    Welsh dragon likes this.
  4. Big Andy

    Big Andy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Sadly cpck ups will always happen, just as in every other walk of life, reasonable precautions and systems should be in place to mitigate against them but every now and then one will slip through, in these cases it is important that a witch hunt doesnt begin against those that cocked up but appropriate measures are taken to prevent further cock ups.
     
    classic33 and Welsh dragon like this.
  5. Pale Rider

    Pale Rider Active Member Staff Member

    Disclosure rules are a bit beyond me, but it appears disclosure was ordered, or at least requested, but not complied with.

    That's a joint police/CPS matter, the coppers gather the material and put it in the file, the CPS decides what should and should not be disclosed to the defence, with an occasional ruling by a judge if the parties don't agree.

    It's a bit rich for the CPS to entirely blame the coppers, but I've seen them do it before.

    When something cocks up, the CPS will do their utmost to pass the blame to somebody else.

    Worth bearing in mind the CPS is represented in court, but the police are not.

    So when a CPS lawyer piles blame on the coppers, he knows he cannot be challenged - which is one of the reasons he does it.

    Lurking in the background may be a general reluctance by some police officers to gather evidence which they think might undermine their case.

    As an old detective once told me: "It's quite simple, gather all the evidence and see where it leads to."

    Some coppers start with the premise their suspect is guilty, and then only gather evidence they think will support their case.
     
  6. tyreon

    tyreon Member

    Why have a one-on one theseadays? Make it a threesome,have some fun! The other person in the bed with you...make it a lawyer,or a video camera. Cover yerself!

    Mod note: Presumably you mean a witness to sexual intercourse would prevent a later false allegation of rape.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2017
  7. Bromptonaut

    Bromptonaut Rohan Man

  8. OP
    OP
    Welsh dragon

    Welsh dragon Senior Member Staff Member

  9. OP
    OP
    Welsh dragon

    Welsh dragon Senior Member Staff Member

    It appears now that all current rape cases are to be reviewed in light of recent rape cases falling apart due to evidance that the police or prosecutors knew of and have seen and reviewed not being being passed onto the defense. Of course neither the police or prosecutors have deliberately witheld evidence.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42841346
     
  10. Bromptonaut

    Bromptonaut Rohan Man

    The issue seems to be social media where finding the incriminating (or do I mean decriminating ;-) ) item is a needle/haystack job. A print out of the text, pictures, instagram and other stuff from an average mobile phone can run to thousands of pages.

    Meanwhile, in another part of the forest, changes to legal aid are reducing he amount defending solicitors get paid for analysing documents:

    https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/law/society-issues-jr-proceedings-over-legal-aid-cuts/5064521.article
     
  11. OP
    OP
    Welsh dragon

    Welsh dragon Senior Member Staff Member


    A very poor show in my oppinion. Rock and a hard place springs to mind.
     
  12. OP
    OP
    Welsh dragon

    Welsh dragon Senior Member Staff Member

    It now appears that a scapegoat has been found. The police officer in charge of the Laim Allan case has been found to be the one, due to not finding the evidence amongst 57,000 text messages on the alleged victims phone according to the BBC. Everything is ok again now i presume. Phew