Do you know Islam?

Discussion in 'Religion, Faith and Spirituality' started by DarkMist, Nov 28, 2017.

  1. DarkMist

    DarkMist Guest

    I am not a Muslim but I am aware of Islam as a faith. I am aware of extremists and the harm they do. Both to innocent people and to the the reputation of their faith. I am also aware of people making pronouncements about it from a seemingly ignorant standpoint.

    Do any of you know anything about Islam? In more than a passing sense? Have you studied or looked at it in detail? Is it generally a religion of peace?
  2. Sonic Budgie

    Sonic Budgie Active Member

    Here's a useful cut out and keep guide for you;


    It may not be bang up to date but it'll be roughly accurate.
    22ish% of the worlds population claiming a faith with around 1.8 billion followers, so when you ask "Is it generally a religion of peace?" try answering that one for yourself and post the results for us.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
    Jezza likes this.
  3. Pale Rider

    Pale Rider Well-Known Member Staff Member

    The Koran contains many references to killing non believers.

    I suspect it's a bit like the Bible in that you can extract passages to prove almost any point.

    Howver, I'm not aware of any biblical text which calls for those of other faiths to be murdered.

    Recent history of many mass killings carried out in the name of Islam suggests it is far from a religion of peace.

    Quoting from the link below: "By most conservative counts, the Quran contains over 100 passages that call Muslims to take up arms against unbelievers in the name of Allah."
  4. Sonic Budgie

    Sonic Budgie Active Member

    Before we start throwing passages from holy books around and their meanings as chosen by other religions, could I refer you to this handy cut out and keep guide to world religions I found;


    It may not be bang up to date but it's roughly accurate.
    With around 1.8 billion followers (give or take a few million), do you think that your suggestion that Islam is far from a religion of peace is accurate? Just to give me an idea in terms of numbers or percentage what would you say was a reasonable amount of people from 1.8 billion (give or take a few million) that carry out mass killings before we can suggest a whole religion is guilty?
  5. Pale Rider

    Pale Rider Well-Known Member Staff Member

    The numbers who follow any religion are not relevant to the teachings of that religion.

    If your point is 99+ percent of followers of Islam are peaceful people then I will agree with you.
  6. Sonic Budgie

    Sonic Budgie Active Member

    No, they're not, but they can prove a useful yardstick when it comes to how we should be interpreting the teachings of a religion.

    How can Islam be described by you as

    If 99+ percentage of it's followers are peaceful. Either they're wrong and they are not followers of Islam or you're wrong and Islam is not "far from a religion of peace." How can both of your statements be true?
  7. Bromptonaut

    Bromptonaut Rohan Man

  8. Pale Rider

    Pale Rider Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Both my statements are true because I grasp the difference between the teachings of a religion and the number of those who follow it.

    Which is partly why we hear so much about radicalisation.

    A follower of any religion will take what they want from its teachings, so it's perfectly possible to follow Islam, ignoring the 100 or so calls to take up arms against non-believers.

    I agree, although the calls in the Koran to kill non-believers are either there or they are not.

    Several of the terrorists have been known to shout, in terms, 'in the name of Allah' before murdering someone.

    As radical followers, they believe they have a mandate to kill non-believers.
  9. Sonic Budgie

    Sonic Budgie Active Member

    What you are saying is that because the Koran says some nasty things Islam cannot be a religion of peace, despite the fact that the HUGE majority of it's followers are peaceful.
    What you are not saying is that the Bible says some nasty things and because of that Christianity cannot be a religion of peace, despite the fact that the HUGE majority of it's followers are peaceful.
    Why is that?

    BTW if you didn't know that the Bible says some pretty nasty things about all sorts of stuff I apologise, let me know and I'll share some verses with you.
    Bromptonaut likes this.
  10. jhawk

    jhawk Member

    I've done plenty of research into the extremist elements of the faith -- namely Salafi-jihadism and Salafism more broadly -- most Salafi Muslims are peaceful people, focusing on their relationship to God, rather than imposing their religion on others.

    I'll not claim to be a scholar nor any sort of expert on Islamic theology, but I'd like to think that I know a bit about the religion's extremist offshoots and how to classify the extremists and separate them from the largely peaceful majority. For example, I know the differences between the schools of Salafi thought and how that differs from the incarnation of Salafi thought into the nation-state ideology of Wahhabism.

    I know the history of the Islamic State throughout the Iraq War and how they began as Jama'at-wal-Tawhid-wal-Jihad in 1999 under Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and from there began an evolution into the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham that you see today.

    I also know that there are quite significant disagreements between ISIS and Al-Qaeda, and that they have fought each other on the battlefield at different points in different theatres of war.

    Interestingly enough, Jabhat Fateh al-Sham, (who used to be called Jabhat al-Nusra back when they were affiliated with Al-Qaeda until their split in 2015) have done something interesting in the areas of Syria which they control -- they've suspended the "Huddud Punishments" -- which are the chopping off hands for thievery and the chopping off heads for murder and that sort of thing -- which shows either that they're positioning themselves for the aftermath of the Syrian Civil War against a backdrop of savagery from the Islamic State -- "Look, we're not as bad as those people." Perhaps that indicates that Al-Qaeda themselves are 'moderating' against the backdrop of the brutality of groups like ISIS.

    So, no, I do not consider myself to be any sort of authority on Islamic theology, but I'd like to think that I can make the necessary differentiation between certain organizations and indeed different parts of the faith -- the basic differences between Sunni and Shi'a Islam, for example. And that I can explain those differences in a clear way.
    Bromptonaut likes this.
  11. Jezza

    Jezza Regular Member

    Islam's a broad church. I've had a drink with Turkish Muslims over in Turkey.
    Sufis are party people, those lads love music and dancing.
    All the muslims we knew 'oop north' were sound sorts. One of my nieces married a muslim lad whose mum and dad come from Pakistan, he was born here. She converted , lovely couple , lovely kids.
    Seems to me that it's these relatively few extremist nutters who give the decent majority of Muslims a bad name.
    That and some people just like taking a pop at Muslims in general either through ignorance or prejudice.
    jhawk likes this.
  12. alecstilleyedye

    alecstilleyedye New Member

    there will always be nutters that will take up any cause or creed that legitimises their own desire to do awful things; islam, irish republicanism, crusades, take your pick…
    Jezza likes this.
  13. IIP

    IIP Guest

    are you serious, Irish Republicanism was a cause for self determination and a direct result of the failures of the British governments through out history to stop treating the Irish as second class citizens, not allowing them to educate irrespective of religion, speak their own language, not be restricted to employment due to nationality or religion, and Irish Republicanism was also a direct response to the brutality of consecutive British governments, now encase you are confused Irish Republicanism dates back alot further than the 1970's.
  14. Sonic Budgie

    Sonic Budgie Active Member

    Well spotted.
    More of a mystery is who's @DarkMist and why have they not been back since they started this particularly insipid thread? They didn't even wait for a reply, actually that's not fair because they could have been waiting for days, but you'd think they'd give it half an hour. I smell socks.
    Jezza likes this.
  15. alecstilleyedye

    alecstilleyedye New Member

    never said irish republicanism was an invalid cause, merely pointing out that there were people drawn to violence on both sides of the argument, for whom the actual politics was secondary to the acts of violence. similarly, jihad is an easy draw for those predisposed to violence in the muslim world.

    neither irish republicanism, not islam, are in themselves bad things, but many a bad thing had been done in their name by people looking for a vehicle to justify their own bloodlust…
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