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HS2 - Good or bad ?

Discussion in 'Motoring and Transport' started by Baron Vlad Harkonenn, Dec 7, 2017.

  1. Baron Vlad Harkonenn

    Baron Vlad Harkonenn Regular Member

    I'd be really quite interested to know what the collective forums wisdom thinks about this.

    Me, I think it is a huge vanity project and a complete waste of money that only the elite (top of the list; all expenses paid MP's) will be able to afford to use once it is built.

    If the money has to be spent, then I'd rather see it spent on re-opening as many Beeching era closed branch lines as possible which was mentioned in the news a week or so ago.
  2. IIP

    IIP Guest

    I think its one of those things that until its up and running, and in about 10-15 years those that use it will probably be saying how did we ever cope without it.
  3. OP
    Baron Vlad Harkonenn

    Baron Vlad Harkonenn Regular Member

    That might be the case for a very elite few who are also mad and wealthy enough to want to commute that far. I think it be very lightly used and that the existing network is sufficient for the route HS2 will supplement.

    I think opening the branch lines would be far better.
    classic33 likes this.
  4. Pale Rider

    Pale Rider Active Member Staff Member

    Seems to me the available jam could be spread more evenly.

    I also wonder if HS2 is needed, given the service between London and Birmingham is already swift and frequent.

    Are business journeys increasing?

    With the onward match of internet communication, I suspect more and more what would have been physical meetings will take place online in some way.

    Anyone with a connected computer and a google or Skype account can have a video conference, so even the smallest cf companies can do it.
  5. IIP

    IIP Guest

    but its not about connecting london to the north, its also about a faster network between the midlands and manchester and leeds, so not sure it just about the elite of society.
  6. Welsh dragon

    Welsh dragon Well-Known Member Staff Member

    As someone who will probably never use it, i don't really care one way or the other. As Pale Rider says, in the future there might be less need for it if more people work from home.

    If you need to use it though, i daresay it will be welcomed. The opportunity to knock a whole 10 minutes ( i know it might be more) off a journey will clearly be something of a winner for some people
    Roger_the_Lodger likes this.
  7. Bromptonaut

    Bromptonaut Rohan Man

    As I've said so many times before we need to kill the idea that HS2 is about nipping a few minutes of the journey to Brum.

    While that will be an effect it's primarily about capacity. The lines out of Euston and Kings Cross are full. No more trains can be fitted into the peak hours and only a handful at other times. As a Euston commuter for 25+ years I saw the capacity pinch develop at first hand.

    Once you accept need for a new railway to create capacity then it makes no sense to build it for twentieth century speeds. And for all the talk of environmental impact HS1 - the St Pancras to Channel Tunnel line - fits into the landscape just as easily as it's Victorian predecessor. HS1 was also about capacity but the same 'vanity' tropes were wheeled out. It's now displaced air as main mode of travel London to Paris/Brussels.
    IIP likes this.
  8. Roger_the_Lodger

    Roger_the_Lodger Regular Member

    So is not the better option to move businesses out of the capital & therefore reduce the requirement, as @Welsh dragon I cannot ever think of an occasion where I will personally use it, I believe it's a 'jobs for the boys' project & the only winners are the rich who will put up some of the money, it will go massively over budget with the noses in the trough, the public will have to be squeezed to pay, yet the rich will get richer off the back of it with their dividends.
  9. Bromptonaut

    Bromptonaut Rohan Man

    How do we do that? What might persuade private business to migrate to Leeds or Lanarkshire? We've had all but 40 years of Thatcher/post Thatcher non-intervention so I don't see government compulsion on the cards.

    The Hardman dispersals that would have seen large numbers of Government jobs moved to the provinces stuttered out in the 80s. Moving out of London asa Civil Servant now means Croydon or Stratford instead of Holborn or Victoria.

    I probably won't use it either but the extra capacity it frees up will greatly improve our local service.
  10. Roger_the_Lodger

    Roger_the_Lodger Regular Member

    I have no idea, I'm not being paid mega bucks to come up with these ideas, isn't that what we elect politicians & their cronies to sort out? But I do not think HS2 is the answer, I think it's a huge white elephant covered in snake oil
    Incentives, the currently expected spend is £56 billion, which means it's not going to come in less than £100 billion. Spread some of that around, London does not have to be the centre of the UK, despite what dwellers there think.
    Then let them fix the real problem, not create another
  11. OP
    Baron Vlad Harkonenn

    Baron Vlad Harkonenn Regular Member

    It really isn't going to help normal everyday people who have to commute. This is due to the lack of stations served by it which mean only travel between major population centers, the cities is possible. Not much help unless you are already a city dwelling elite who will be able to afford what are going to be the eye wateringly expensive fares. Season tickets as they are are already pushing £6,000 for those brave, mad and wealthy enough to commute from the outer reaches of what is possible and even at that price it is something that is not tenable for most.

    How much will a London to Brum season ticket cost bearing in mind this will be ptiched as a premium service? It'll end up like the Heathrow express, lovely but so expensive few can afford to use it, they go the old fashioned and cheaper way.

    Yes, capacity will be increased but will be out of reach for all but the very wealthy. All very animal farm with some travelling on very fast and virtually empty trains whilst the vast majority of cattle will have to travel in ever more crowded cattle class. I'm sure "all expenses paid" MP's and BBC execs will love troughing it whilst on those vrtually empty trains.

    Far better the money were spent on another crossrail type project, or two, but better still would be opening up as many Beeching era branch lines as possible. However after todays sell out to the EU it would probably be better spending the cash earmarked on paying down the divorce bill.
    classic33 likes this.
  12. Roger_the_Lodger

    Roger_the_Lodger Regular Member

    The true cost of this will dwarf the divorce bill, what i don't understand about that is it not usually the most wealthy one who pays the higher share surely the EU has more money than the UK. But I suppose there is another post about that somewhere else.
    Baron Vlad Harkonenn likes this.
  13. OP
    Baron Vlad Harkonenn

    Baron Vlad Harkonenn Regular Member

    I like that, we are the estranged wife but....
  14. Roger_the_Lodger

    Roger_the_Lodger Regular Member

    Oi less misogyny, we could be the estranged husband
  15. OP
    Baron Vlad Harkonenn

    Baron Vlad Harkonenn Regular Member

    Oi, less of the binary and stop assuming [edit] my our gender.