Why can't we talk about it?

Discussion in 'UK and World News' started by Baron Vlad Harkonenn, Nov 20, 2017.

  1. Baron Vlad Harkonenn

    Baron Vlad Harkonenn Regular Member

    You know, the thing we cannot talk about and mention?
  2. Aitch

    Aitch Member

    Cycling? Why doesn't someone start a thread about bikes, cake stops, touring, training regimes, gear ratios? Would it be allowed?
    Sonic Budgie likes this.
  3. Welsh dragon

    Welsh dragon Senior Member Staff Member

    I think you might be referring to the Islam thread. Before i locked it i did have a look at it's counterpart. I saw that it was 19 pages long and had been locked quite some time ago. I thought maybe wrongly that it had reached its natural end. If i was wrong, then as i said this morning, i apologise. I did say ealier, that if people thought i was wrong, then if a number of people want it re opened then i would so and that i apologise if a mistake was made, but i did think it had probably run out of steam the first time around.
  4. Welsh dragon

    Welsh dragon Senior Member Staff Member

    Please don't start a should cyclists legally have to wear a helmet thread ^_^
  5. Sonic Budgie

    Sonic Budgie Active Member

    Hey it's all politics Dragon. What's your thoughts on it?

    Welsh dragon likes this.
  6. Nazz

    Nazz Member

    I'd have been tempted to let it run tbh, we need to be able to talk about any subject and you would soon see what if any baggage is being dragged over from CC.

    We talk about debating in an adult manner, would be a test to see if the current membership are up to it.

    That said the header is a bit broad and agree with the comment about it being more tightly focussed, else you could equally say "religion - discuss"
  7. Welsh dragon

    Welsh dragon Senior Member Staff Member

    To be honest, i don't know an awful lot about the religion of Islam to be able to talk on the subject. I was brought up a christian and honestly im not a fan of that .

    Maybe i should broaden my knowledge on the subject.
    Sonic Budgie and Nazz like this.
  8. jhawk

    jhawk Member

    As someone who frequently engages in discussions about the religion of Islam, I'm definitely pro a-thread about it.

    We have to talk about these things, in a cordial, respectful and mindful fashion.
    Baron Vlad Harkonenn likes this.
  9. OP
    Baron Vlad Harkonenn

    Baron Vlad Harkonenn Regular Member

    I personally think it should and needs to be openly discussed so that it can be understood, which is why I asked and asked again.
  10. Jezza

    Jezza Regular Member

    Never seen a cheese thread here or on CC.
    Is it cheese?
    hopless500 likes this.
  11. Joey Shabadoo

    Joey Shabadoo Regular Member

    baby cheeses?
  12. Jezza

    Jezza Regular Member

    I started a Cheese thread.
    Can deffo see why Islam is a no-no topic.
    It went ballistic over on CC.
    People have strong views.
    Beats me why.
    I doubt that any of us on here are either Sunni or Shia.
    Best left to Muslims is Islam IMO.
  13. jhawk

    jhawk Member

    Not talking about ideas does more harm than good in my opinion.

    We have to be able to talk about ideas -- even the unpleasant ones.

    For example, when talking about Islam in the context of jihadist-terrorism, we have to be able to distinguish between religion of Islam and it's adherents. And we have to then further be able to distinguish because the religion of Islam and it's political manifestation of what I (and others) call Islamism -- that is, the imposition of Islam over society.

    And then further, if we want to talk about specific groups like Daesh or Al-Qaeda, we have to distinguish them as Salafist-Jihadist terrorist organizations. And you can break that down even further to say that Salafism is a particularly conservative branch of Sunni Islam, but most Salafis are not jihadists and that there are two other schools of thought within Salafi doctrine.

    Purists -- who seek devotion only to God and seek to emulate the Prophet Muhammad and the two generations of companions that were alive after the Prophet's death, but are usually strictly apolitical, believing that politics is a distraction from religion and the two should not mix.

    Politicos -- who believe all of the same things that Purists Salafis do, except that they attempt to bring about political change through religious doctrine.

    The third school, as above, are Salafist-Jihadists, they believe in the use of violence to bring about political change and implementation of their version of Sunni Islam over society. Coincidentally, almost all Salafist-Jihadists are also Islamists, to varying degrees -- for example, Al-Qaeda is different from Daesh in that they envision a more regional implementation of their interpretation of Sunni Islam, whereas Daesh believes in the wholesale global Caliphate idea.

    There are even some reports that areas in Syria that are controlled by Jabhat Fateh al-Sham, formerly known as Jabhat al-Nusra (when they were affiliates of Al-Qaeda), that they have suspended Huddud punishments -- which are the sorts of things like cutting off the hands of thieves, beheading for apostasy, etc -- almost as a way to sort of moderate themselves against a backdrop of much more hardline, theocratic groups like Daesh in the region. To say that they are a better alternative and probably to position themselves politically for the aftermath of the Syrian Civil War.

    Point is that if we're going to talk about Islam, we have to be careful how we discuss it in the context of jihadist-terrorism and we have to use proper terminology. Of course, there is not necessarily a consensus as to what these terms should be and you certainly shouldn't take my word(s) for it when I use certain terms to describe terrorist organizations in the context of jihadist-terrorism and Islamist extremism, but it certainly seems wise for all of us to adopt a nuanced approach.
    Baron Vlad Harkonenn and Spinney like this.
  14. jhawk

    jhawk Member

    When I say, "In the context of Jihadist-terrorism", I simply mean that there are other contexts in which we could discuss the faith, not that this is the only context in which it is or can be discussed.
    Baron Vlad Harkonenn and Spinney like this.
  15. jhawk

    jhawk Member

    Apologies for nerding out on y'all. :laugh:
    Baron Vlad Harkonenn likes this.
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